Here is a transcript generated by otter.ai of The Content Mix podcast interview with Amy Kelly, EMEA marketing director and customer experience expert at UserTesting :

Carlota Pico 0:15
Hi everyone, I’m Carlota Pico from The Content Mix, and I’m excited to be here today with Amy Kelly, who is the EMEA marketing director at UserTesting, and has over eight years of experience in marketing and communications. Welcome, Amy, and thank you so much for joining us today on The Content Mix!

Amy Kelly 0:36
I’m delight to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Carlota Pico 0:39
The pleasure’s ours. I can’t wait to learn about your experience. So to get this interview started off, I’d like to learn a little bit about your background, a bit about the company that you’re currently working in, and also how you’ve gone into your current role.

Amy Kelly 0:54
Sure, yeah. So as you say, it’s been in marketing for just around eight, nine years. And it’s been a mixture of in brand and in agency. So I started my career in agencies and working in creative PR and sustainability agencies. And then I actually got into the contract world which sort of opened up the doors and got me really into working with some fantastic brands. So my first opportunity in the brand side was with ITV and following that I did a project at YouTube, which was great. Following that, I’m moved to Facebook and I was there for a year. So I had been done in London for I think around like seven and a half years. So I was there for a while. And during that time, I was also doing my CIM at the Chartered Institute of Marketing, so studying for my marketing while I was working, and, and then once I finished the contract world, I moved back up to Scotland. As you can tell, I’m from Scotland. And I got a job with a company called UserTesting. UserTesting with just launching their first EMEA office so they decided, luckily for me, to have that in Edinburgh, so the office opened then the last June, July time. And since then we’ve been working on the ground because the company is actually, it’s a tech firm that’s based in San Francisco and Atlanta in the states. And this is the first time that we’ve been operating in Europe. So it’s been a year now. And it’s been a fantastic fast moving year. It’s been scrappy marketing. But it’s been very exciting. And a little bit of information about the company UserTesting is a platform that helps enable companies to really understand what their customers think, feel and do. So what we do is we help them basically bridge what we call the empathy gap. That currently there is around 75% of organizations who believe themselves to be empathetic to their customers. But when those same customers are asked, it’s only around 30% agree with that. So there’s a massive gap there. There’s a lot of organizations that don’t really knew their custom anymore. And it’s through multiple reasons, you know, we’re getting very digital. And sometimes we can lose that real human approach of how we market to people, how we talk to people. So the user testing platform really allows you to know exactly explicitly how they feel what they’re saying. And it’s a very quantitative approach to research. And we work with some of the biggest brands in the world. I mean, we have small companies as well, and we help them really understand their audience. And it can be through, you know, for helping understand how their products work, usability wise, or it could be a bigger brand feel of how do people feel about my brand. And we have a panel over 1.5 million people worldwide. They’re already part of the UserTesting platform, so when you want to launch a test, you can easily reach your target audience and get results within a matter of two hours and you would get a video back showing you exactly what your customer is going through—whichever test you wanted to—and look at whatever research that you’re looking for, you can get that all through user testing. So I became very passionate about the customer experience space through this role. And it really made me understand as a marketer how important customer experience really is. Because I don’t think as marketers, we think of it as the same thing sometimes is customer experience, you think of service or you think of product and you think of design or, you know, the product researchers, you might not think of marketing, except from the market research departments to really be focused on the customer experience, but it’s very much shone a light on how vital it is, and it’s a bit of a game changer at the moment. So it’s an interesting space to work in.

Carlota Pico 4:44
So exciting. So how do you connect with potential customers of these brands that you work with? Is it more like consultation or is it more like products? So you have one point, we have millions of users basically of testers around the world who receive a product, and they can literally test it out like kind of the beta phase of that product?

Amy Kelly 5:08
It can be before its launch, or it can be when it’s live. So really how it works is, you know, say your average person’s just, you know, decided that they want to make a bit of extra money, because we pay our testers, and they go on to usertesting.com. And you become a tester, and your demographic, all of your details, you know, get saved. So, say, for example, if I was working for… let’s say, Nike…and I wanted to test my products, like my digital products, a buy on the app, with a specific group of people and a specific area who buy Nike. So what we can do is we can actually find you that age, that location, or sex, anything that you’re looking for in that area for you to be able to test that so maybe I want the tester to open this page, this first URL, and do this action and they’ll be doing that and you’ll see in real time what they’re doing. So you’ll be able to get like… they’ll be talking over their experiences and say well, I’m trying to do this, this is difficult. I don’t quite understand why this is like that. And you’re getting—you’re seeing firsthand what your customer is going through, and it’s really powerful because I think you can have all the data in the world. But if you don’t know the why behind the wall, it does not it doesn’t match up. So it’s a it’s a fantastic tool. And it’s something that you would have thought it’s probably always been there… it’s such a fantastic platform solution. It’s, it’s something that’s a vital part of what we need to really connect with our customers and become very passionate about that recently just from working at UserTesting because they really do live by what they say, you know, we talk to our customers all the time to make sure that we really know them as much as we possibly can.

Carlota Pico 6:50
Amy, I love this also because I’m an entrepreneur at heart. So you can imagine I’m all about the UX. I used to be a—well, I was the founder of a tech platform—and for me during the beta phase, it was all about surveys at the end of the day, like interviewing my potential customer and seeing what they thought about my platform. I wish I would have known about UserTesting back in the day, because I would have totally been your client!

What about…

Amy Kelly 7:11
Yeah! Sorry…

Carlota Pico 7:13
No, no worries! What about digital transformation? Can this also be used to help companies digitally transform, like internally?

Amy Kelly 7:20
100%, 100%. So digital transformation is a funny one. It’s, you know, I feel like right now, in this situation, we’re in digital transformation is no longer a choice. Like you’ve got to transform to digital. Because right now, we can’t really be in the same place as our customers, and I know things are slowly kind of coming back to normal, but this has been a tough few months. And I think transformation can mean so many different things to so many different people internally. So you have a lot of discussions and back and forth of what transformation is going to mean for our organization. When really all you could do is ask your customers “What is really required here?” “How can we transform to help you?” Get the answers back from your customers and let them be the change makers for you. And it just helps settle so many disputes entirely. It’s unbelievable. And you can really see like, what is vital, like, maybe you don’t need to transform, maybe you just need to evolve, you know, I think the transformation word kind of scares everyone all the time. But this, the platform UserTesting really can help you in the whole journey. You know, when you’re trying to make sure if you’re going the right route, if you’re taking the right steps, UserTesting is right there with you to get fast feedback in two minutes—not two minutes, two hours—and you can get that, literally go for lunch, come back and you’ve got the answers there from your target audience whether or not you are on the right path. And it is a vital part because I think so many companies are so excited about that digital transformation, which is fantastic. And, and 100% should be excited about it. But you should also be checking yourself you know, you should be also just looking back and taking a step back, thinking of the basics and go “Right, is this really the right thing that we’re doing? Are we making the right decision? Is this going to resonate with my customer? Hey, how’s my customer going to feel about this?” You know, you’ve really got to get into that, because we all know about at a time that we’ve opened up a new app that has been completely redesigned. And we go, “What!? This doesn’t work for me!” you know, and you stop using it. And you just you lose those customers. So, it’s… it’s vital.

Carlota Pico 9:21
This is so exciting. So, I possibly have a few potential clients that I’m going to be sending your way because I think they can definitely use UserTesting in order to evolve as you rightfully said, because you’re right. It’s about evolution, everybody has to evolve, and companies do as well. So, okay, because we only have 20 minutes on the recor…I mean, I could talk about UserTesting all day because I think it’s such an exciting service and products…But I do want to talk about your experience brand marketing and also thought leadership. And I want to stick to these two topics because it’s your area of strength as we touched upon before our interview, and I want to bring you down to the basics, okay? So to get this section of the interview started off, I’d like to ask for your advice on what you would tell startups that are just at the beginning phases of defining their brand. So in other words, how do you determine who your brand is? Because, I mean, brands need to have a personality, right? But it’s much easier to talk the talk than actually walk the walk. A lot of brands still don’t know who they are, and they’re already a company.

Amy Kelly 10:28
Yeah. So I think it’s an interesting question, because for a startup organization, it’s so crucial to get it right early on. You know, when you’re entering the market for the first time, you need to make sure that brand resonates with your audience. So I think there’s there’s always some fundamentals that you have to have from the get go, you know, you have to make sure you’re being authentic and that you are matching up to expectations. You know, like if, if you’re providing a certain product and you’re selling, you know, let’s say for example you’re selling clothes, you know, if it’s just something like that, if it’s fashion, so you’re wanting something to really resonate, and you have to have that, you have to have that standout bar, it has to be authentic and genuine. So again, like I kind of come back to the customer all the time, like I’ll always come back to the customers. If you’ve got that brand that’s going to resonate is going to create emotion with them, you know, if you’re if you’re selling fashion items, and you really want this specific target audience to feel something different about your brand, you have to stand out you have to be genuine has to be authentic, but you have to also make sure it’s matching your customers expectations of when they buy that product. Is that matching what you’re selling online? You know, is that brand matching what they did when they get that delivery and they open that box and you look at what they’ve bought is that matching how you’ve portrayed your brand? Is the design, the messaging, the positioning, is it all fitting together? You know, you have to be consistent as well, you know. I think I’ve seen a lot of brands from the get go…it’s to say what the vision is…to say what the positioning is…the brand message and the creative and everything and be consistent with it. Because changing too fast at the start will make it a little bit more confusing for your audience. So I think there’s a few things that you have to get from from the very beginning. And, you know, I’m very much the advocate for testing. So make sure you test that brand, make sure you test that message with your audience, make sure you put it in front of real people, even if it’s a mom test, you know, put it in front of your mom’s put it in front of your aunties, but don’t just push that out into the market without getting that feedback.

Carlota Pico 12:43
Yeah, what about like questions that every founder should ask himself or herself?

Amy Kelly 12:49
It’s an interesting one, because, you know, I’ve not been a founder myself, so I can’t see that I would know 100% you know what that would be from their perspective…

Carlota Pico 12:59
Or every company, for example, I mean, I’m zooming into the startup world and ecosystem because I’m an entrepreneur at heart. And I’ve had to go through all these different hurdles and challenges of defining my brand and finding my voice, trying to reach, well trying to have my brand, produce emotions, because I think it comes down to that. And for a company to produce emotions, it’s quite challenging. So I think it comes down to fundamental questions as well, regardless of if the company is a startup, or if it’s already in growth phase or a multinational, lots of companies redefine who they are along the way.

Amy Kelly 13:38
So I would say from my definitely my experience at UserTesting because our CEO Andy McMillan is an incredible guy—who I’ve never quite experienced a CEO like him in my life—and he really stands by the values of UserTesting. So I think really early on, if it’s a founder or if it’s an organization, whatever that might be, someone senior in that company really has to ask themselves, what are key values? Because I see it it does it trickles through from like, what are the key values to how the leadership team stands by those values to how it then seeps into the organization, and then how the employees display those to the customers. And it’s just this, you know, extreme trickle effect is so powerful. So I think because I see it in the leadership team, that we have a UserTesting, it was really my very first experience of like, these are our values, and we stick by them, and we give them to our customers. And you know, and they’re good values, in the sense of one of them is: “Get better.” So like, we’re always striving to get better. So you never want to necessarily get to a point and say, yeah, we’re done. You know, you want to always have that ambition, the motivation and get to the next level. So I think get better is a really powerful one that we have UserTesting. And we always have like “Customers first”, you know, think about the customer at any part of the organization you work in. If you’re not thinking about the customer, that’s going to make a negative impact on the business. And, and then also, I think you want to think about the way that you’re talked about internally, you know…What do you want your employees to say about you externally, because ultimately, that’s going to affect how they work with your customers, and that’s going to affect your sales and, and how you can grow and be successful, right? So I think that you want you know, just how I’m saying to you about how amazing UserTesting is, like, you want people saying that you know to everyone else. If you’re a company right now, you’re senior stakeholder, senior CEO, whatever you might be, you really want passion in your employees. So I think is, is labeling those values and sticking by them being consistent again, and making sure you’re being genuine, you know, don’t just slap some values on the wall and then don’t live by them. You know, I think it’s incredibly important to say what you’re going to do and then do it.

Carlota Pico 15:55
I agree, I actually work—well, I’m head of business development at VeraContent—and VeraContent has very strong values, culture…we’re all about culture and making sure that our employees from down, up, top down, feel proud of who we are and our service that we provide to our clients as well. And I think feeling proud of the company that you work for is one of the best gifts that the company can give you—beyond salary, compensations and everything else, of course. But for me, I mean, I’m extremely proud of working with a company that stands in line with my own values on a personal level, and I know has my back. And I think that’s part of the culture that they’ve produced and some of the questions that founders have to ask themselves as well as, how do you want employees to resonate with the company that they work with? So thank you, definitely. Thank you. Okay, what about the metrics, what metrics are important to you as a marketing director?

Amy Kelly 16:59
So this is an interesting one because this is my first experience working in a fast growing SaaS business. So software’s service as a, as a tech platform, you know, it’s a really interesting thing, because we have such an important brand message and the thought leadership aspect of customer experience and how important that is. But from a marketing perspective, you’re also sales best friends. So you have to really work directly with sales, to make sure you’re fully aligned on what the goals are for the business. So this has been a big learning curve for me, actually, you know, really into the lead generation part of business marketing. So it has been super exciting just learning how to…how to generate demand at scale. So I think when it comes to the metrics, yes, like you’re looking at, from a Marxist perspective, and then this sort of business, you’re looking at the volume of interest that you get from consumers that come in, and then you’re looking at who those people are. So you’re trying to make sure that you’re getting our target audience correct. So you’re looking at, we’re getting these, you know, leads come through the match our target market we’re going after. And and then you want to just see like, what impact is your campaigns having on the actual business itself? You know, you might have held this amazing event in the world. But if you didn’t get any meetings or businesses…you know how successful really was it? So you really want to measure that up against the results. You know, you want to see from this campaign, we generate this many meetings, and we generate this amount of revenue for the business. Ultimately, that’s how you know that your campaigns are working, and they’re actually helping the business. Because I think that when it comes into the wider perspective, and using platforms like UserTesting and checking that as marketers, we’re not being overly bias and creating campaigns that we think are amazing, but no one else is necessarily agreeing with that so you really need to fire into what is the the main goal here? Why are we going to spend this money on this campaign and what kind of results we’re going to generate from this? For example, at the moment, we’re doing a webinar series, and it’s getting, you know, very targeted across our demographics, and it’s generating a lot of great conversations with our sales team or their customer team. And it’s fantastic. It’s great to see that something on the back end of a campaign can really generate some some strong results. So I think that it’s been a big learning curve for me, because obviously, in the past, it’s been very brand focused, and some brand tactics are harder to measure. But for me, I think it’s definitely coming down to what impact we’ve had on the business in terms of revenue. But then also, one thing I’ll never sort of take for granted is feedback that we get from customers, you know, after every campaign will always ask for feedback—Did you enjoy that webinar? Did you enjoy that event?—and it’s qualitative, and it’s really important, you should never just rely on the big data you have to get the real human insight to really understand if that was a really successful campaign or not.

Carlota Pico 19:59
I love to hear a marketeer speak about sales because I’m a very sales oriented person obviously I’m in business development, which is a mix of marketing and sales. And I always think, I’ve always said that marketing is a tool to drive sales but we cannot forget about sales because without sales, we don’t have a company! I mean, you can promote and create the most beautiful campaigns in the world, but they don’t actually result in cash and euros or pounds or in dollars the company’s gonna fold so…

Amy Kelly 20:33
You’ve always got to have that commercial mindset, you know, especially in the startup world. You’ve got to think like “What kind of revenue and results and leads can I generate from this campaign?” and from the very beginning, you know and and put it against the cost like, how much you invest into gain how many leads? What return on investment are getting from from this? You know, you have to think of it that way.

Carlota Pico 20:56
Definitely. During the office record part of our conversation, you had mentioned that you’re big in thought leadership. So I do want to talk about how you’re incorporating thought leadership into your marketing strategy.

Amy Kelly 21:12
Thought leadership is at the center of all of our activity 100% because I think you can be the best product in the world, but if nobody knows who you are, they’re no good just going to come knocking on your door and go “Tell me about UserTesting!” You really have to think about how you draw the interest and, and for that we value thought leadership to the max, you know, we make sure that we’re consulting with the best experts in the field and we have a chief insights officer Janell Estes, that that really does take responsibility and control to making sure that our thought leadership is beyond, you know, averages to the top level, high quality things that we’re creating and 10s of, you know, resources and webinars and ebooks and events and, you know, any sort of extra resources we create, we have, you know, a university that we actually help, you know, UX researchers and everyone will learn more about how to do their jobs and, and how to help them actually advance and this is things like that, that I think become the most emotional drivers as a customer. You know, I know that with any companies I work with as a marketer that really invest in the the extra more than just like the facts of the here’s a sale, here’s what we’re going to sell you. But what other valuable things can you give to me? Like, what other knowledge can I gain from this interaction? You know, and I see so much amazing content, like The Content Mix like this is great that you’re getting, you know, the real voice marketers to come on here and share their perspective like this is valuable for other marketers, like I think it’s thought leadership should never be shied away from. But back to the, you know, what we’re saying and targeting, like, there’s no point in going and creating some random thought leadership, you know, you really have to think about the audience, you know, as a marketer—Do they live in Europe? What industry are they in? What challenges are they facing right now? And zoom right into that specific area to create a piece of thought leadership on the back of that challenge or that pin point. Because ultimately, like if people aren’t thinking like, Okay, I need more resources to figure out how to be better at my job, they’re going to be searching online and you want that to come up, you know, you want that like content to be popular. So I think it’s great for lead generation, demand generation, but it’s also just fantastic just like for internal purposes, as well for helping a company really understand what you’re all about, you know, for me, like we’ve got so much great stuff, and spent a lot of time reading at the beginning. So it’s, it’s incredibly helpful internally and externally.

Carlota Pico 23:38
Amy, well, thank you for that shout out. We appreciate it. And I’m very happy that you like what we’re doing and think that it provides value to our audience as well. And so, I want to talk about some real life examples that you admire, that inspire you, in terms of marketing campaigns. And this will basically tell our audience to understand how some of the talk can be applied to the walk.

Amy Kelly 24:07
Mm hmm. So, yes, I have a little think about this one. So one of one of the campaign’s that stuck out to me the most during this whole COVID crisis, because if you think about it was kind of like battle Battle of the marketers during this COVID crisis, you know, emails and ads and everything. And a company that really stood out to me massively, it was Skyscanner, because I think their hashtag #wewill campaign resonated, I mean even thinking about it, I’ve got a little bit goosebumps, you know, it massively resonated with me because travel right now is so emotional, you know, the thought of not being able to travel to see your best friend that lives in another country or, you know, like I’ve got a family all over the world and if you’re not able to go and visit them right now and you’re not able to go and experiencing countries and cultures, right now, it’s it’s upsetting, you know? And I think it was that hope that Skyscanner gave us in the campaign. And I always say this, you know, the most successful campaigns are ones that trigger emotion like you have to trigger emotion. And that one certainly did, you know, it was giving you that hope that we will travel again, and we will, we will come at the end of this…you know, we’ve all got to be hopeful. And we’re going to get through this. And it really resonated and I think they had fantastic results from it, people just talking about it and trending and, and sharing it online, because I think it really did strike a chord with quite a lot of people. So off top of my head that was, you know, a big campaign that struck me during this time. But fundamentally, yes, I would say that the best marketing campaigns are the ones that can trigger emotion and that doesn’t have to be sadness. It can be joy and laughter and it can be anything that really just makes that person remember you later because you made them feel something.

Carlota Pico 25:58
Amy, I mean, you’re giving me the chill just talking about it! I’m a frequent traveler, unfortunately not during Corona times because of course, I’ve been extremely limited and also quite scared to be honest…Spain was heavily affected, and we face lots of deaths from Coronavirus. So I’ve been trying to stay away from airports and planes lately. But just the idea of being able to jump on a plane again and like you said, travel across the world to see some of my best friends who live in the US and not being able to do so, but having that hope that one day I’ll be able to one day in the near future! Let’s specify in the very near future, I’ll be able to jump on that plane again and go out to LA and to see some of my closest friends. So yeah, it’s about creating emotions. But what about when those emotions are negative emotions? How would you respond to customers who are giving negative social media reviews about your service, products, platform? What do you do in that case?

Amy Kelly 27:01
You know, you’re never going to please everyone you know, there’s always going to be someone that’s got a little gripe for something. And usually it’s those folks that like to go on social media and complain. And I think it just depends on what’s being said, you know, if there’s a legitimate problem if someone’s having problems with a product and someone sees that we immediately flag it. It’s our product team, who get in touch with those people to see you know, how they can help. And so if there’s a genuine problem, you know, we try to be responsive, we’ve got a social team that is constantly watching our channels and making sure that the interactions are positive mainly but if there’s any negative reactions we are, we are being responsible…you know the probably the worst thing you can do is ignore them all! You know, if you do have something that’s coming up, and again, again, like don’t just ignore it, address it, try and figure out if it’s something that’s trending and becoming like a clear issue, take it back entirely and go “Right in the last month we’ve had these negative reviews are all linked to this one theme. Let’s take some time to think about what this is and how we can fix it.” You know, like take… our CMO Michelle Huff is very optimistic all the time and always refers to problems as “problemtunities.” You know, like, turn that, like that problem is an opportunity, like, think about what else we could change, like, if you’re getting a lot of negative reviews or specific to the product, maybe there’s a bit of the usability that you need to change. Maybe you have to get UserTesting and do some testing, you know, like, do something like that to make a positive impact. And actually, from the negative review, create something beautiful, maybe something like that.

Carlota Pico 28:38
I love that. It’s like that phrase that I used to be told when I was little: “Turn that frown upside down—put a smile on!” Okay, well, we are moving into our set of rapid-fire questions, which are basically your recommendations for our audience. So, to get this section started off, I’d like to talk about a resource or an influencer that inspires you?

Amy Kelly 29:02
A resource an influencer and inspires me… Okay, I would say as much as I can disagree with him a lot, Mark Ritson is definitely someone that I follow, because I think he does call it like it is, but there’s a lot of things he says I disagree with. So I would say like he’s a great influencer for marketers to kind of step back from the bull sometimes, you know, like to be real to be genuine. So off the top of my head, but I’m sure there’s lots more that I can think of.

Carlota Pico 29:34
Okay, what about a book, a publication or an event that you’d like to recommend to our audience?

Amy Kelly 29:40
So recently just went to an event and I know they do regular events, Madfest recently held an event called the 99 Club, digital events. So that was a great way to do a digital trade show. It was very short, snappy content and everyone had 99 seconds to really give their big idea. So that was a great event. In terms of other resources, you know, I definitely get a lot of content from Marketing Week like some of the big marketing publications, like they’re, you know, there’s always trending pieces that you can get into and just see who other people are talking about, specific projects, etc. So, I would say go to that quite regularly. And kind of try and read a little bit of, you know, self development stuff that’s not necessarily linked to marketing, but you can really help just change all aspects of how you work in your career and how you work with your colleagues. The one book I always recommend is The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson. And it’s just a really strong piece of literature that makes you think, like there’s just little small things I could make huge difference in my life. And I think that you can really pull that into how you are in your career.

Carlota Pico 30:58
Okay, excellent. Well, thank you for that advice. What about your favorite app at the moment? And why? It can be for personal reasons, well, for personal use as well.

Amy Kelly 31:07
Yeah, so I think I favorite out for personal use, right is Tik Tok. It’s mainly…I don’t put anything on there…. I just like to look at it because I’m fascinated by humans! You know, I think that we’re all weird and wonderful, and there’s some weird and wonderful stuff on there right now. And I think it’s just during that since everyone’s been in lockdown and the content on there is just second to none. You know, you’ve got some incredible talented artists, singers and dancers. And then you have got like, comedians, and it’s just I feel like it’s a great snappy way of getting content. It’s been been fun to watch it. I’m not sure how long I will continue to watch it. I’m not sure how I would incorporate it as a brand, but I do, I do enjoy it.

Carlota Pico 31:56
Yeah, no, I think it’s a great laugh. I find it extremely entertaining as well and I’m very interested to see how brands are going to incorporate it into their social media strategy, because I don’t know how business a business company would do that, I see more for b2c. But let’s see! I mean, the future is full of surprises as Coronavirus has caught all of the markets here is across the world, and from all industries as well. Okay. Well, that was Amy. Amy, thank you so much for sharing those great tips with us. It was a pleasure to have you on The Content Mix. And your insights were very valuable. So I look forward to following your journey across your social networks as well. I’ll be connecting with you soon on LinkedIn. Thank you again for joining us.

Amy Kelly 32:40
Thank you so much for inviting me. It was great. Thank you.

Carlota Pico 32:43
And everyone listening into The Content Mix today, thank you so much for joining us as well! For more perspectives on the content marketing industry in Europe, check out The Content Mix. We’ll be releasing interviews just like this one every week, so keep on tuning in. Thanks again and see you next time. Bye!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai