Here is a transcript generated by of The Content Mix podcast interview with VeraContent’s Shaheen Samavati and Kyler Canastra, and James Scherer, VP of growth sales at Codeless, on how to scale up your content production with content automation tools:

Kyler Canastra 0:02
Hi, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. I’m Kyler Canastra

Shaheen Samavati 0:07
and I’m Shaheen Samavati. We’re your hosts of the Content Mix Podcast.

Kyler Canastra 0:10
Today we’re going to be talking all about automating and streamlining content processes. For global marketing directors, it’s hard enough to create a constant flow of high quality content in one language. And when working in multiple languages, the process becomes even more complex, and making the process smoother and more automated can save a business large amounts of marketing budget.

Shaheen Samavati 0:30
But how is it done? Exactly, we have just the person with us today to shed light on this topic. James Scherer is the VP of strategy at codeless. It’s a content marketing agency specialized in large scale content production for software and software as a service companies. And as VP of strategy. He oversees the marketing strategies of well known brands in the space like, and Active Campaign.

Kyler Canastra 0:51
So welcome to the show. James, we’re happy to have you.

James Scherer 0:54
Thank you so much looking forward to this.

Shaheen Samavati 0:57
So let’s jump right into the topic. First of all, James, how much content do you think growth minded companies need to be producing per month? And at what point do you start to see real ROI and investing in automation tools?

James Scherer 1:10
Okay, how much content should a company be producing any given month, I would say, the amount of I would say. You should be producing the amount of content that you have opportunity to create, that are legitimate opportunities for you to drive traffic ranking positions, leads and sales. If you’re in a space that has a huge volume of those topics, which we’re not all in necessarily. If you are, however, then you should be publishing at least I would say eight pieces of content for the first kind of 12 months of content production, you can scale that down, once you have kind of identified the primary topics within your space, created content around them and optimized the content for those key phrases, you can scale it down to four. But you know, then again,, did 75 a month for the first eight months of working with us. But they’re in one of those industries, where they do project management, software, CRM, sales, funnel optimization, customer support. So because they are so large, and have so many different departments that they kind of have services aligned towards, there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of opportunities from a content perspective in that space. But not every business has that kind of volume and breadth of opportunity. Either way, though, I would recommend most businesses create a volume of content in the early days with their investment to rank as much as possible, index your content early, backlink to it and create support content of higher volume of this. And then after months nine to 18 is really about optimization, continuing to create support content, identifying what you have, where it is, what can be done to add to it. So that can be the scaled down period. But throughout all of this, automated automation starts at the beginning, I don’t think that there’s a certain date at which automation starts to deliver a positive ROI. Because right off the bat, we’re talking about time saving. So ignore everything else we’re talking about how long does it take you or a freelancer, perhaps to create a high quality long form blog article from scratch? And the answer is with automation with some of the tools that we may talk about today. That process is slimmed down from you know, a 1012 hours to hopefully around four to six to create a really high quality piece of content, which immediately is a is a positive ROI. Depends on how much the top costs. But

Shaheen Samavati 3:58
yeah, I mean, I guess kind of what I was getting at with that question is like, is it is automating your content process, something that every company should consider? I suppose it depends on how big of a priority content marketing is for you. And I’m aware that, yes, obviously, if you’re doing a certain volume, then it makes sense.

James Scherer 4:16
But also, it also comes down to how are we defining automation of content. I mean, there’s everything from me. If we’re talking about using software to help you create content and streamline the content production process, then a little red line on open one word processor is helping you write more effectively grammerly is helping you write more faculty that is software that helps you create content, high quality content. On the other inspection, we have full automation tools like Jasper tools, like you know, tres has, like, marking us all these platforms have, we will write an article from scratch for you. You just give us a few phrases and some description. That’s the other end of the spectrum in the middle is, for me at least. And this is kind of how we’re currently using automation, using those tools to inspire our freelance writers to create outlines based on the writing competition. So that feels to me currently like the win in terms of using automation effectively, to allow them to still be creative and create something novel, but know that the structure of their article is based on what’s ranking, and then they can add to that structure. But, yeah, the automation cost question really depends on how we’re using, are we using it to create all of our content? Or are we using it to streamline the production process?

Kyler Canastra 5:45
Yeah, I was gonna ask James to like, cuz we’re talking about, you know, content production. And depending on the industry, depending on where the company is at in terms of how much they want to invest, you recommend a certain amount of articles a month, and I’m sure sometimes the company is going to say, like, how are we going to do this? And like the tools like what tools we’re going to use? So when, when a new client comes to that cold list, like what are the areas that you typically recommend to speak, streamline first, and why, in terms of the production itself,

James Scherer 6:11
I mean, so it’s more than when a client comes to us, they’re coming to us for for us to create their content. So I have done some consulting with clients. But the, the production process, and the model that I kind of pitch is based off of the model that we use in house. Okay, so codeless has a very small core group of like salaried employees who are on 14th. And then we have anywhere between 75 and 100, freelance writers, and another half dozen editors. And the process that we use is very, very built around a project management tool. So we use clickup, though we’ve used pipe fie in the past, we’ve used a notion like, why did that calm? Click, like, you know, there’s a lot of these fundamental tools that act that kind of show show where everything is at and allow you to assign, you know, stages of the production process and to people. And I would say that, that, that visibility is crucial. So anybody looking to to create a content, having a, don’t just assign a piece out, and then say, Hey, can you give it back to me when it’s done, I would say, give, you know, have the process be clearly delineated within a project management tool, where the writer is assigned the topic and provided whatever you kind of need to provide them in order for them to create high quality content. We provide writers with not just a client specific writers guide, but also our internal standards for images or internal standards for linking their clients, internal link, preferences and priorities. A couple Yeah, the complete guide for how like the writer that the client wants, em dashes, and semicolon, you know, like all the stuff that makes it a piece for them. They do an outline, that it’s either they either have the option to do it on their own accord, or to use one of the automation tools. So we have access to then our editorial team edits or reviews that outline prior to draft, just so we feel confident they’re going the right direction, the end goal is is the right one, then they draft, sometimes clients actually review the outlines as well, then they draft and we go through two rounds of edits. And I guess what I’m saying here is that while our process is relatively comprehensive, it is extremely comprehensive. It is also the process that puts as much of the onus for the time consuming tasks, and the onerous tasks on the affordable freelance writer and the software itself, which means that the editorial staff or CMO, whoever it is, has very little time, their time isn’t taken up with managing this process. As a set, you know, it is a set process that the writers just kind of like, understand this is how it all flows. At the end of it, everybody doing their part, you get a really high quality piece of content.

Kyler Canastra 9:12
I really like what you said about like the whole concept of visibility, like making sure you’re clear from like the first step of the process until the end and every step of the way. So in order to like avoid those, you know, mishaps happening and people misunderstanding instructions. And so it seems like you have a very clear and visible process that like using

James Scherer 9:28
these guidelines is visible there. Little time each stage has the deadline. So when the editor gets it, they know that they need to get that back to the writer in the next two days in order for the writer to hit their deadline which is in five. Right. So do you

Kyler Canastra 9:41
have the client directly in the project management app as well?

James Scherer 9:44
So there are a lot of our procedures. I mean, they have a certain level of visibility refer to certain level of access. But we do know they can add comment. If they do outline review. They can add comments not just to the Google doc where the outline lives. Also within the card itself, the task lives and they can say, Hey, can you make sure that you include our product in this section, please? And the writer says, Yeah, So

Kyler Canastra 10:09
collaboration is key to your success, then amongst the client, and the writer, everyone involved has like a very clear role in the collaboration as well. Yeah. That’s great.

Shaheen Samavati 10:17
So we’re like in a very similar business, as you know. So, of course, our focus is more on multilingual projects, or I think you’re doing more work in English and more focused on on the service and, and software as a service industries. But I was curious, I mean, do you have any thoughts about multilingual content creation? And whether there’s more challenges? Or, or is it harder to automate? Or is it better to automate, I guess, then, than a monolingual project? Obviously, I have some thoughts on that. But

James Scherer 10:48
yeah, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Well, my my belief would be that it would be far more challenging simply because the platforms that are currently, you know, enabling Content Automation, I would imagine would be the English focus to platforms. So they’re identified, like, for instance, the tool, one main tools we use to optimize content for SEO, or for search is phrase and phrase identifies the, you know, you, you put in your drafted content, and it checks the top 20 search results for a given key phrase and tells you what you’re missing. And for anybody out there, it’s a pretty reasonable tool, there are a number of them, they are very helpful to create search are to contact. I would imagine that a tool like that is recommending snare to key phrases only in English and based on English, Google. So those automate like it’s an automation, but it’s also it’s one of those, for me is one of those tools that expedite the creation of high quality content. And I would be surprised if many of those platforms were focused on, you know, the international market as anywhere near as much as they were on the English. But you

Shaheen Samavati 12:05
may not like your example, like a lot of our content that we create is based on interviews. So we get like a recorded interview, and then we one thing that we tend to automate is the, like getting an automatic transcription that makes it more quick, more quick to get like the, to extract content from the video. Yeah. But we found much better tools for that in English than in other languages, we’re just like, starting to see tools that work in other languages, and but the way they work in other languages tends not to be as good as an English. Everyone puts, like, the emphasis on English. So

James Scherer 12:41
yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s the challenge. But I mean, the the worlds of talking about a market that is very early days, I mean, as far as those platforms that do, you know, entire crunch automation from scratch tools, like Jasper, or Frick, within the phrase, their AI Generated Content tool is it says beta next to it. You know, marketmuse is is always one of the dominant platforms. They’re also all these guys are just like, this is a thing we think could be cool in the future. This is where we’re currently at with it. And so, you know, it’s so I would be what they’re saying is that from like, the complete creation side of things, I haven’t yet found a platform that’s there on the English side. So I think we’re probably a couple years out, I would be amazed at you guys. were more like 10.

Shaheen Samavati 13:34
Early English, yeah.

Kyler Canastra 13:39
Not only do we have like work in similar businesses, but we also are all from North America. And we’re all from United States. And we’re all working in Europe. So I always like to ask, you know, other Americans that are working in Europe, how their experience was, and we want to know James a bit more about how you ended up in the UK, and how your experiences working as an American abroad. For sure.

James Scherer 14:01
So I went University in Canada, and there I met an exchange student from the UK, saying was Hannah, and we got on quite well. And we’ve been married for what we were together for 14 years. And we’ve been married for the past four. And she’s from here in the UK. And so we actually University kind of bounced around a little bit, and moved to Canada back to Canada together for six years to Vancouver, Canada and loved it there. But then wanted to you know, settle down and actually by placing that’s just not an option for a lot of people. It has a certain skill by a certain extent. But we kind of wanted to do a traveling year before settling down and I’ve been in the content space for six, seven years by that point. And I was at that time head of inbound for a SASS company in Vancouver. But I went back to writing freelance While we traveled, and I started writing freelance writing for a company called code list, and they, you know, do counter production for a number of customers, and I really enjoyed it. But when we traveled the world, and it was it was, it was really amazing and expensive and awesome, because we chose like, we did like New Zealand and Australia and stuff, rather than, like, go to a beach in Thailand and hide right now. So I guess I kind of kept working throughout it. And, but then when we settled down here in UK, I expressed an interest in a more permanent role. And so came on as director of editorial Euro code list. So that was overseeing the editorial team, as well as kind of like guiding our writers through the process and making sure that that that that process was understandable and comprehensive. And then in January, yeah, went to the VP role. And so now she’s overseeing our clients strategies across the board, which is really, really exciting. I think it’s on the hot how you guys feel about agency work. But having done in house, I don’t think I could go back. I think that it’s just too dynamic and interesting and fun to work with, and try to figure out the challenges and nuances of a bunch of different clients. So you know, when you get a new one, you have this whole new experience of like, okay, what can we do here? What are the opportunities, but what are they currently doing? How can we improve that, which is a process that I absolutely love, and you only get once when you’re in house, you know, when you first get there? So I don’t think I’m going back anytime soon.

Kyler Canastra 16:37
That’s funny too. Because for me my besides like the, you know, lovely love story that you have with your wife. I was actually a freelance translator and writer for veracontent, and kind of had a similar experience kind of asked for a permanent role. And here I am, like four years later, but how was that experience? Like? I think for me when I was you know, I worked as a linguist, but also as a project manager working with different clients. Like having that experience working with content itself has been so rewarding for me, even in my role now. So I was just wondering, like, how was your experience like working as an editor, like impacting your role, like on a daily basis, I guess, in your new position,

James Scherer 17:11
it’s interesting. I mean, I, I wrote for so long, and then I was an editor for so long, and out of the two of them. I would still say that I love writing. Like, I’m definitely a nitpicky personally, as far as content goes, I have high standards for what quality looks like. But my love is in the creative side of things. But I also like bossing people around and I like the strategy side of content. I would say what helps me is, and I think what this is, you know, it’s it’s trite and cliche, but, you know, every CEO should work in customer service for, you know, a week, every VP should be on the mailroom floor for a week, I think everybody who is managing content strategy or for you know, content production should have been a writer, you know, tapping the electrical, you know, pen against their forehead, trying to figure out how to put another paragraph down. Because I do think that understanding what can be a quite painful process content production, helps you as a manager, create processes that make that process less painful. So for me, it’s, it’s been emphasizing that we strive to get our writers everything they need, everything they can possibly need. So they don’t need to ask questions, so they don’t need to come to somebody. So when they get a piece of content, it’s not just a topic, it’s not just a key phrase, right? It’s everything that they need to create high quality content, and then a process that makes that easy for them to check that they’ve, you know, done all those things, we have a checklist process within our project management tool, specific to each client. So when they’re assigned a piece for or Active Campaign, they are completing the different checklist so that they feel confident not just with what they’ve been given, but also that they are doing exactly what is required and not gonna have to do any of your writing. Not gonna do any redrafting their outline as approved, so there’s no concern that I can redo 2500 words you have to do another 2500 words that are different. And it’s all built on, you know, having been in the content trenches, for six years. You know, putting in my in my time, and knowing how painful

Kyler Canastra 19:48
it can be exactly. Like for me and my experience to like the best clients to work with were the ones that had that hands on experience. Its content because they understand exactly like the ins and outs, and they understand the process. I think so like, from their briefs to their understanding of like, oh, we need more time with this for x and y reason, like, there’s so much more on board because they understand the process. I do think like, it’s a very helpful tool, in our cases, right to have been on the ground doing that work, and not like, overseeing a lot more in terms of strategy and stuff like that. It helps a lot.

Shaheen Samavati 20:19
Yeah, I was gonna make a similar comment. I think like, a lot of companies like nowadays, I mean, everybody wants to be a publisher, because everyone knows that it’s like, necessary, like, you need to be putting content out there. But a lot, a lot of them don’t understand, like, what is the whole process behind that and how much work it actually is, like it does require, like you said, it has all these steps, and all all these processes that need to be like super solid, so that you’re like, consistently able to put out consistently good work. And

James Scherer 20:49
it’s a good space. Because there’s no there’s when somebody says that, hey, I want to publish the content, the the content on offers everything from like, you know, $50 for a 2000 word article, and you give them a headline, and they’ll do it, you can go on Fiverr, or wherever and get that nice ribbon all the way up to I mean, we charge $1,500 For our lowest of volume, content. So that that comes with strategy. And with images. And with SEO, Search Optimization, we do see an SF loads, but it still is a huge investment on a per piece basis. And so for a lot of businesses be like so what is the difference between a $50 article that I get somebody to write me and what you’re doing. And the difference is monumental and how it’s created, who creates it, what their expertise is, what the piece looks like, how it’s delivered how you know, there’s there’s a lot of there’s a lot that goes into content production at that level, for sure. And anyone

Shaheen Samavati 21:51
who’s worked in content creation knows that right? So that’s what guy that was saying, when you have a client that’s been in the trenches. They appreciate it, and they value it. And but when it’s a client, maybe that doesn’t know the difference between one and the other. They’re like, why wouldn’t I get the cheaper way?

James Scherer 22:08
And then they publish like dozens and dozens of those articles. And after a year, they’re like, why isn’t content marketing working for me? And we’re like, well, are any of your articles linked? Or any of the optimized research are? Good? Do you have any images? Maybe we go back into some of these URLs.

Shaheen Samavati 22:27
But on the topic of like, outsourcing versus like having an in house team, obviously, that’s something that a lot of companies debate on, what’s your your thoughts on that? I think at least one, they need to have at least one person in house who knows something about content marketing. But then the rest could potentially be outsourced? But yeah,

James Scherer 22:45
yeah, no, I would agree. I would say having somebody either have somebody in house who understands on some level contemplating or, you know, find an agency, who you trust completely to end that agency should be responsible for strategy alongside production. When I first got the code that we were just doing production. So the clients gave us the plan and gave us the topics and we just wrote them and delivered them. But when I came in, it was really important to me that also kind of selfish business perspective, I wanted to be involved in decision making. So that the success they saw, I could take credit for January from from a sales perspective. Whereas if they saw success with with with our content, or they, a lot of our clients didn’t see success with our content, because there was no promotional element. There was no conversion optimization on the on the page itself, because we weren’t involved in any of that side of things. But to your question, I often cannot use the analogy, it’s like. You can either try to do the electrical wiring in your home on your own. Or you can hire somebody whose job it is to do electrical wiring. And one of those scenarios will result in you having working power and one of those scenarios may get electrocuted. And I think on some level that all marketing, if you go with an agency who is good at what they do, then that is what they do. That is their profession. They are experts in this. So when we talk about Codeless being like a content market agency for SaaS – not just with SaaS but the majority of our clients are SaaS – it’s like all our team does, all we are built to do is produce high quality content for your business. We do not do advertising. We do not do page design. We do not do conversion optimization. We do really high quality content for businesses exactly like yours, and we’ve seen success with businesses like yours. And I guess that’s the difference is that when you hire an agency, you hire an expert in a specific space. Whereas I think when you have an in house team, they, by definition, unless you’re substantial, are going to be doing other stuff. When I was head of inbound at at SaaS company, I was not just doing, you know, content production and content strategy, I was also doing conversion optimization. I was also doing email drip campaign creation, I was also doing marketing, automation, you know, optimization. I was also involved in like, the video side of things, when we tried that for a little while I was involved in the podcasting thing for a while, and we tried that, there’s, you know. Whenever you’re in house, you are inevitably pulled into 14 different directions. Whereas when you go with an agency who does something specific, then they do that thing specifically, and they do it really well. And you know, that what you’re investing is going exclusively to driving success in that place. And I think that that will probably will, as a result, deliver a more positive ROI than if you invest in somebody similar kind of costs from salary perspective, to then be pulled in 14 different directions.

Shaheen Samavati 26:12
Yeah, I do think like, and I completely agree with you about, you have to focus on your core competency. And I think there’s a few exceptions of companies who decided like, Okay, we’re gonna become expert content producers, and you have like Red Bull Media House or, you know, these trends that have created their own content production divisions, but you basically have to do that build your own agency internally, if you want to be able to do the same kind of work your credit agency would do for you. So that’s a strategic question, right? Yeah,

Kyler Canastra 26:40
for sure. And now, also, before we like wrap up the conversation, I just want to know that we talked about AI tools before, but I want to know, James, in your perspective, like, which ones have you tried? Which ones have you found more useful? And do find, like see that AI tools are useful for like content creation, and for especially for like b2b brands, looking to create some thought leadership?

Shaheen Samavati 27:00
Just to follow up on that, like the question there is like, are AI tools actually useful? Like, can you create good content with an AI tool, I think people are getting this idea that like, there’s tools out there that will just make the articles for you. And we’ve found that’s not really the case.

James Scherer 27:18
I have also found that is not yet the case, by any stretch of the imagination. I have tried Jasper and phrase and market news. And, unfortunately, going back to what makes a good article, let’s ignore everything except the SEO side of things, which I know is not by attaching imagination, the only variable that we judge good quality on, let’s say, SEO. When it comes to saas and b2b content, all content actually, Google rewards novelty, they reward thought leadership, they reward bringing something new to the table. We have in the past created content that is exclusively, essentially rewrites of what’s ranking already. It doesn’t surpass anything that’s there, because it is exactly the same. And your domain rank is probably lower, right? New content that says something new, and bring something new to the table reps, so long as it’s also, you know, talking about all the stuff that needs to talk about, by definition, AI, you know, created content, can’t bring something new to the table. All they’re doing is regurgitating to ranking content, they can’t have novel ideas. And I think that for Google, it’s, they’ve been very clear with us about what they are rewarding when they rank content. And it is not just quality, it’s not just your meta descriptions, your meta titles and making sure that you have low size images that are you know, whatever, whatever, whatever, it’s not a PhD. It is also the the the ability to bring something creative to the table on this subject matter. And AI can’t do that. And we’ll never be able to do that. No matter how good they get at adapting existing content into something, quote, unquote, new for a draft, it’s not going to be new. It can’t be. So unless they get somebody to like an AI that can have new ideas, which is a whole different thing. We should all probably run for the hills. We’re gonna be okay for a little while. Does that mean that AI can’t help you create great content? No, it can you know, you can populate an outline relatively quickly from the ranking content. Know what subheads you know, create a comprehensive piece of content and then add your own creativity to them. Add in pieces of your own voice your own brand, and then your your novel idea, your novel spin on it to an existing outline. Sure. I’m fine with that. But the creation of content like, and like, long form article? Yeah. Yeah, it’s some

Shaheen Samavati 30:11
human intervention for sure. Yeah. Can I ask the last final question? Can I just feel like, because we’re kind of saying what, what can’t be automated maybe if you could, because at the beginning, you started out saying, talking about what could be automated, but maybe you could reiterate like, what? I don’t know, what’s been like your Eureka, like, okay, it was amazing when we figured out how to automate this thing, or is there any that like, you know, you’re sure things that you think are the best to automate or that Yeah, to leave?

James Scherer 30:37
Yeah. So I would say there’s a number of places that we, we have automation within our production process. The first is automatically assigning content to the person who it’s who’s responsible for that stage of production is really, really handy. We use clickup. For that, then we use Google Docs for all content creation. And then we also have CMS uploads within our within our, our contract. And there’s a automation tool called warrantable, that takes google doc content and moves it into WordPress, or a number of other CMS platforms, automatically, it just like you, you connect the two tools, or the three tools as like a middleman like a Zapier equivalent almost. And it like just sees your content within it. And you say upload, and it goes. And it takes meta descriptions and images and meta titles and all that kind of stuff. And that’s actually just to be clear, that’s like that’s, that’s the company that we’re all sort of associated with and affiliated with. And but they it’s an SAS side of things that I’m not involved in, but I’m a fan of from, from what they deliver perspective. So that’s a great one. Also, you know, we do use mostly automations. But there are a number of tools that take some of the human error out of editorial work and on optimization. So currently, you know, we use a tool called, which actually allows you to import clients specific or if you’re in house, like your own brand specific style guidelines into the tool, and it’ll check draft content against those guidelines. So it’s like Grammarly, but up a notch, we use Pro writing aid, we use auto crit for plagiarism checking, which is kind of an automation of like, you don’t pour through the internet, or you’re on court, I guess, kind of, we use phrase for SEO. So that’s checking our content against like a competition, and making sure that we’re including subject matter wise what the ranking competition is, or that the writing content is. And, yeah, we’re able to take those optimized pieces of content and moving them into the CMS automatically is is I mean, but honestly, just like any tool that saves you time, and is going to save you money. So there are a number of them out there. And a lot of them do fantastic work. So much of

Shaheen Samavati 33:04
the way you use those tools and how you create that entire process that creates efficiencies

James Scherer 33:08
also depend on how much you’re doing, you know, we do 300 pieces of content a month. So what we do and how we do it may not be how you necessarily need to. But I would say that it is like even if I was doing eight pieces of content a month, I would still use clickup. To manage it, I would still use phrase to make sure my stuff was on was, you know, up to scratch SEO wise, I would still use Grammarly or and I would still use you know, word of mouth of chocolate all the rest of us. Because the tools aren’t like none of those tools are actually that expensive at all. And they get a whole lot easier no matter how much you’re doing.

Shaheen Samavati 33:43
Yeah, so going back to that ROI question it is worth even even on a small scale content production. I mean, it’s, it’s not that big of an investment, it is going to save you a lot of time. So it’s probably worth looking into a lot of these tools.

Kyler Canastra 33:56
That’s awesome. That unfortunately wraps up the conversation for today. And it was really great to connect with someone else in our industry as well. So it was great to have your perspective and kind of learn from you during this conversation. And I’m sure a lot of our listeners are going to say maybe I want to get in touch with James to learn more about him or about what he’s doing at codeless. So where can people find like get in touch with you? Is LinkedIn the best option or?

James Scherer 34:19
Yeah, LinkedIn is good. But I’m also I mean, clearly I love talking about this. Honestly, like I’m down for people to email Just, you know, maybe put the podcast name in the subject line or something. Otherwise, I’ll wonder if you’re spamming me, but yeah, I mean, a cold outreach email looks very similar to like a genuinely enthusiastic email. So it feels like a line than that. But yeah, I’m totally down to have more conversations with people but LinkedIn is also great. I’m on Twitter at JD shear. Yeah, all the places

Shaheen Samavati 34:52
around and like you said, codeless that I O is the company website. Right? Yeah. Find out more there about your agency. All right, well, Thank you so much for being on the show. James. It’s been great having you.

James Scherer 35:03
Thank you so much, Carla. That was That was fun. Let’s do it again.

Kyler Canastra 35:06
Yeah, we definitely for sure. And I just want to thank everybody else too, for listening in. And as always, for more perspective on global content marketing, be sure to check out our website at If you’d like to get in touch with any of us, or if you have any interesting topic for an upcoming episode. You can also reach out to us at And keep tuning into the podcast for more interviews with content experts and we’ll see you all next time. Thanks again, James.

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