Here is a transcript generated by Otter.ai of The Content Mix podcast interview with VeraContent’s Kyler Canastra, MANZ’s Mário Costa and WeTravel’s Allan Formigoni, on launching successful global marketing campaigns:

Kyler Canastra 0:04
Happy New Year. And welcome back to another episode of The Content Mix. My name is Kyler and today I’ll be hosting our first ever roundtable conversation on the podcast. So after about 230 interviews with inspiring marketing experts in Europe, who have all shared their personal insights and stories with us, we’ve decided to revamp our approach to the show in the new year. Going forward, in every episode, we’ll speak with not one but two experts on a specific industry topic that our listeners can relate to. Think of it as a deep dive into a niche subject with a conversation between two professionals who can give us their best advice and provide real examples from working in the field. And to kick off this new format, I’ve invited back two recent podcast guests who I interviewed in 2021 to discuss a topic we all have plenty of experience with: implementing a successful global content campaign. So it’s an honor to invite back two Lisbon-based guests who I’m sure will be key in today’s engaging conversation. So first, I’d like to introduce Allan Formigoni, content and email marketing manager at Wetravel a payment and booking platform for group and multi-day travel companies, and Mario Costa, the marketing and communications director at MANZ, Portugal’s leading fitness and events company. So without further ado, I want to thank Allan and Mario, for joining me today on our new format of The Content Mix. So welcome, everyone.

Thank you.

So great to have you guys back with us. And especially, after the new year, did you guys have a good holiday season?

Mário Costa 1:42
Yeah, it was great. It was great. Also see, to be with a family again. So it’s always a good time to be around.

Allan Formigoni 1:49
Yes, get dressed and prepare for the upcoming year. Hopefully it’s a good one for everyone.

Kyler Canastra 1:54
Yes, for sure. I hope so too. I know, it didn’t start off on the best note with a lot of things going on with the pandemic and kind of the holidays kind of all coming together. And a lot of people getting COVID. But I think we can be positive. And you know, it’s a new year, it’s a new beginning. And at least we have this new podcast episode to have something exciting to start the year off, for sure. Now I’m sure from people who are listening, listened to the episodes that you guys were featured on and in the last quarter of last year. However, I kind of wanted to learn a bit more, to give some more background information about yourself. So Allan, can you tell us a bit more about who you are? And your background in marketing?

Allan Formigoni 2:34
Yeah, yeah, sure. So I’m Allan, I’m Brazilian. I’m based in Lisbon right now. And I’m working for WeTravel, just like you said. And I recently led the launch of the WeTravel Academy, which is basically a hub of valuable information with podcasts, articles, webinars, and for industry for travel industry professionals. So this has been my my late like, challenge in my content, professional life. Before WeTravel, I also led another startup content and SEO efforts. And basically, I was in charge for expanding our brand, internationally through organic traffic. And we did this working in three different, three different languages. So English, Spanish, and Portuguese, and all over 10 to 15 countries also. So this is basically my marketing background in a few words.

Kyler Canastra 3:30
Yeah, and a lot of international experience as well, because it seems like travel for you is something that’s important. No.

Allan Formigoni 3:36
Yeah, definitely. That’s why I’m here.

Kyler Canastra 3:39
Yeah, how long have you been in Portugal? Again?

Allan Formigoni 3:43
Just seven months, I guess, now.

Kyler Canastra 3:46
Yeah. So you’re still fresh in Lisbon, just like myself. So you’re enjoying it? I’m sure.

Allan Formigoni 3:51
Yeah, it’s an amazing place.

Kyler Canastra 3:53
Now, Mario, you’re from Portugal. So you’re the only native Portuguese here. Can you tell us a bit more about who you are? And kind of your experience in marketing? Why I guess I invited you on the show today.

Mário Costa 4:04
So, as you said, I’m Portuguese. I work at MANZ. It’s a fitness training, events, wine. It’s a very multi-topic company. And I work here leading the Marketing and Communications Department. And before I was at Metro in Germany for three years, so I was responsible also for the global branding, working for 26 countries. So the localization and the content part was a big part of my of my role during those three years in Germany. Before I was also working in marketing for seven years in the largest publisher in Portugal, Porto Editora. I also was in Makro for two years as a digital and branding manager. So yeah, my background is all about communication, marketing content, so that’s the field that I like to work.

Kyler Canastra 4:57
And you worked in, I think, I remember an editorial company, in Portugal’s number one editorial company, so language and writing something that you’re interested in as well, on a personal level, for sure. Now, today’s topic on the show, we decided, because before, you know, coming up with a topic, I was very, I was excited to start this new format. But I also had feedback from both Allan and Mario about what topic we should do and kind of just ideas about how we can, I don’t know, kind of have a nice conversation about something that’s relevant right now. And we decided to talk about implementing successful content campaigns because it’s something that they both have experienced with, also I have experienced with this. Before I was the sales lead and account manager at Vera content, and now the host of The Content Mix, I also was a project manager. So I was actually working with different clients on different content campaigns as well. So it was kind of something that we all had experience in. And something that’s kind of relevant now, I think. You know, as a sales lead at a content agency, myself, I’ve seen a lot of interest now in the new year, a lot of people are looking to start a new campaign to kind of get things kick started for 2022. I do think there’s a lot of hope, in this time of like the pandemic, people are kind of seeing a light at the end of the tunnel in a way maybe. But I think a lot of people are much more optimistic starting 2022 in comparison to last year in 2021, where I think times were a bit darker. So although it might seem time is not the ideal time, right? With the pandemic, but still, it’s much better than what we were doing dealing with last year. So I think a lot of companies now are looking to implement a new content strategy. So we thought it’d be really relevant and also interesting to talk about this. So I kind of want to start off this conversation to hear more about both of your experiences implementing content campaigns. And also to learn more about if you’ve worked on more domestic campaigns or international campaigns. So Mario, could you talk to us a bit more about your experience implementing content campaigns in the past, and what markets you’ve worked in. And if you spend more on a domestic scale or international scale.

Mário Costa 6:59
For the companies I worked, I have the two scenarios. So I was in the editorial and the publisher and publishing company mentioned before, we created the full content strategy only for the national market, for the entire country of Portugal. But it was a Porto-based company but had a national lead. So it was the campaign targeting parents and students. So it was all based on content and not about just products and conversion. So it’s about creating relationships through content, through the takeaways, important notes for the parents, and also for the students. So it was all about content strategy, and it was national, nationwide. But for the Portuguese markets. It was the first time we implemented this kind of campaign at the time, in the brand. It’s still alive… So it’s still alive, still working after all these years that we implemented it. So it works, because it’s all about relationship, good content, useful content, that really helps parents being parents, while the kid or the daughter is a student. So it was all about that. Then at Metro, in that case, we had international campaigns, content campaigns across the markets. And there was some challenges, of course, because some markets cannot use that kind of content or it needs to be adapted. But in that case it was about, as a global brand manager to develop a campaign that speaks the values of the brand across all the markets, because the brand is the same. So I had both experiences in my professional background about content strategy.

Kyler Canastra 8:28
Now I’m going to ask a question just out of sheer curiosity. But I think a lot of times when I speak to different, you know, marketing managers and people in the industry, when it comes to Portugal, as a market, many people kind of just push it together with Spain or Iberia, and they don’t really care. I don’t know, I think Portugal is really forgotten a lot of times because it’s such a small country, and in your experience working in the market, like what makes the Portuguese market unique? And why do you think people we should focus on just kind of targeting that market rather than just clumping it together with Spain, for example?

Mário Costa 8:59
That’s a very good question because of course, from a scale perspective, it makes sense to connect with Spain, language wise, it somehow has the similarities. But from a market perspective, it makes sense to make some kind of combinations. But in reality, Portuguese and Spanish people are very different in a lot of topics. When I was working in the food sector, for example, at Metro. We are also specialized in providing supplies for food restaurants and caterers… And when I was in Portugal at Makro, we understood that, in the years before there was an attempt to work together with the Spanish market. And it failed. Because the reality for example, gastronomy, it’s quite different. Just to give an example. So from when sometimes you perceive us especially if you don’t know the reality, you may think that there are some similarities between Portugal and Spain and there are, but from a strategy perspective, it’s dangerous if you make a strategy that applies to both countries. It’s not necessarily true, of course it depends on the business and depends on a lot of things, but in general it’s not necessarily true because there are some specifications that are quite different culture wise, tradition wise, habits wise. So we need to apply the scenario to both countries differently.

Kyler Canastra 10:17
Yeah, for sure. And after, I lived in Spain for eight years, and then I also have family from Portugal and now I’m living in Portugal, I can attest to the fact that they’re very different. I think a lot of people… They’re similar, in many ways. I feel like, for example, me moving to Portugal and living in this new market is, it’s similar enough, I didn’t feel like culture shock. But at the same time, I’ve noticed so many differences between like the way that people are, and just the way of being, I think. So it’s definitely important to highlight that. And I think it’s so important when you’re trying to really connect with an audience, to speak to them in a language that feels comfortable to them. So you can’t just, it’s similar, but you can’t really compare the two. So I agree with that analysis that you just gave us. Now, Allan, I want to talk a bit more about your experience implementing successful content campaigns, especially as someone coming from Brazil, and then moving to Europe and working in different markets. I’m just curious to hear more about what campaigns you’ve done in the past and kind of what your experience is implementing both domestic and international campaigns.

Allan Formigoni 11:18
So in my previous company, WorldPackers, which was a market place for volunteer opportunities, for people to connect with different country hosts around the world. And then we were approaching, we actually had travelers from, I don’t know, more than 100 countries. But of course, we were not like reaching out to all of them. So our main targets were Brazil, some countries in Latin America, like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, and Peru, the US was also a big one. And then we were starting to build some campaigns for Europe, especially in Spain, and Portugal, but then the pandemic came, and then we had to change everything. But anyway, so we had to produce content in all those three languages. And just like, agreeing with Mario, it seems that it’s easy, because it’s easy to think that, okay, if I have, let’s say, Spanish content, I can just promote that content to all those different markets in Latin America, but it’s completely different than that. And each market will have a different way of thinking, so each market will have like, will behave differently, will have its own buyer journey for exactly the same product. So how they make decisions, what they do, what influenced them, or who influenced them, and their price perception. So everything changes from market to market, even though they might be in a slight similar campaign, or in the same campaign, or they have like similar, similar background. And then now with WeTravel, we are like our main customers were based all in the US. But then once the company start growing a lot, we also came after some companies and travel professionals, like travel industry professionals in Latina America, and now also in Europe now. So we are right now just planning the content strategy that we will do for all those different markets. And yeah, it’s exciting to see like, how we attack whatever we have, and whatever was successful in the past for these new markets

For sure. Now you brought up a point too, similar to Mario, the question I asked him about Spain and Portugal as well, Latin America, I think a lot of times people clump Latin America as one market, and you said you worked, for example, in Chile and Peru and like Chile is so different compared especially like linguistically in the way that people are compared to Peru and other countries. There’s so much diversity in these markets that in Brazil, for example, sometimes people put Brazil with the Spanish speaking countries, it’s kind of a mess, because it’s really important, I think, to really focus on each market, which is kind of leading to my next question before we like deep dive into the topic. I was very curious to hear more about if you think that global marketing strategies are essential, like why do you think they’re essential to when you’re trying to connect with international audiences? And is it always necessary to localize your campaigns for the different markets you work in? So what about AlLan, in your opinion, in terms of, you know, why do you think these strategies are so important when you’re trying to connect with an audience and kind of why, if you agree, what do you think about localizing each market and why, why is that important? Yeah.

I definitely agree. And again, just repeating because I think that’s really important. You can have like the exact same product, but everyone, like every single market will have a different way of buying that product. So your content, of course, needs to reflect whatever’s the way that people make decisions in that specific market. So I think that’s definitely important. And it goes from again, the content strategy from like your branding, for example. So, or your visual identity or even your, your tone of voice. So I remember when I was, when we were producing content for Latin America countries, for example. And back then we were a company like we were targeting millennials. And of course, we were trying to use like some slangs and trying to have more like an informal communication. And but the same slang used, let’s say in Argentina, is definitely different from one used in Chile or Peru. So we needed people that would know, like, really get to know like those local slang so we could use it in our communication or in our content, for example.

Kyler Canastra 15:48
And did you tap into like having local people working in the markets, like community managers? Or how did you get that insight when you’re working in those markets?

Allan Formigoni 15:55
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we were a startup. So we didn’t have like that much budget to have, like, a specific person in each of those markets. So what we tried to do was making like these double checks with local people, whether they were local travelers or local hosts, if what we were communicating back then would make sense to that specific market. So we were glad that our community was really engaged like that. And they would help us making sure that whatever we are trying to say or push, made sense.

Kyler Canastra 16:27
Yeah. And I think a lot of times, people, that’s an important point you brought up, cause a lot of times, I’ll hear like, Oh, we don’t have the budget to localize, so we’ll just do it. So it’s not necessarily a budget thing, like you had found a way to do that with a smaller budget, because you’re working in a startup company, it’s not impossible to do that, I think a lot of people will kind of brush it off, and say, it’s not as important, we’ll just do it all the same. But you can find a way to make it work. And it’s so important to really help grow your brand by having you know, your brand speak to the people in the way they speak. So it’s not just you know, having this huge localization campaign and hiring all these people, you can still do it, but you have to be creative in that sense. Now, Mario, in your opinion, what do you think about global marketing strategies? Why are they so essential when connecting with international audiences?

Mário Costa 17:10
I mean, for me, I think it’s essential, especially if you have a global brand, let’s make the example. Because the brands and the developers of the brands should be the same across all the markets, right? So the perception you have about WeTravel or Metro, it’s exactly the same anywhere in the market, right. It should be the same, the values should be the same. But then you need to have this kind of localization, that’s very important, because markets are different, people are different. But having a global strategy, when you work in so many different markets, it’s key, because then you lose the identity, then you lose the the experience, you lose the sense of belonging to the brand, that’s even the people that work in the brand need to feel, but also customers. So it’s very important to have a global strategy that it’s applicable across the markets, then adapting to the different realities. But for me, it’s key when you work in such globl brands.

Kyler Canastra 18:01
Sure. Now, I guess it sounds, I guess I would say it sounds really nice, right, that we’re gonna, you know, do a global strategy and really maintain the brand and the voice and the, you know, the same value that we’re providing in every market across the board. But what’s the most challenging aspect when you’re sitting down to implement a global content strategy and start like, you’re beginning this whole brainstorming process and what you’re going to do and how you implement it. What’s the most challenging aspect, Mario, in your opinion?

Mário Costa 18:28
I wanted to pick up on what Allan said, because even if you are in a startup, of course, you have different resources than if you work for a big brand. But I remember that the most important challenges, when we were working with our agency, our marketing agency, they were coming up with a lot of creative ideas in English, informal language, or English slang as well. And how do you then translate to 26 markets, and it’s kind of the particularities that English language is a very easy language, it’s easy to create these kinds of puns and these kind of funny, funny sentences. But when you try to apply in Polish, or in German or in Portuguese, then it’s quite challenging to say, how can you transfer this funny idea into the same funny idea in the local market? So this was always very challenging without losing the idea of the campaign, because there was a reason why there was this kind of pun, or this kind of funny aspect of the sentence in English, was to maybe be able to derive from market, because it was important for the campaign, having this kind of possibility to adapt the local language is quite challenging. And then, of course, some campaigns don’t work in those markets because those products doesn’t exist, that habit is not like that. I’m talking about Valentine’s, talking about Christmas, talking about Easter. So there are a lot of moments in the year that don’t work necessarily across all the markets where the brand is there. So the commercial media is still there, right? So we need to find this kind of adjustment between the two market so it’s important, but it’s not easy, so that’s the thing. So you need to pay attention to everybody.

Kyler Canastra 20:03
Exactly. That’s like the most challenging part of any localization process. Not only is it language, but also the holidays and the kind of like the market trends, what’s going on, just like cultural expectation, I think, in my opinion, like my background is in translation and linguistics, and I started off as translating content for different brands. And that was like always the most fascinating part, I think, so many people just think it’s, oh, it’s the same, you just translate it and it’s fine. But no, it’s like, you have to really look at the pragmatics of it, and the semantics and kind of not only just… look at Portuguese from Portugal and Brazil, it’s totally different in the way you address somebody, and what you know, third person versus second, you know, all these different things that come up in the same language, or in the US versus UK. It’s really, although we speak the same language, and we understand each other, the way you approach, you know, someone or in a campaign, how you write to them, and how you address them can be quite different. And how about Allan for you? Like, what’s something that you find most challenging? Is it this whole idea about, like, you know, the language and kind of how you’re going to, you know, keep your content the same, but different across different markets? Or what other aspects have you found challenging?

Allan Formigoni 21:11
Yeah, so besides that, I will definitely say that distribution is a key part. And of course, one of the most challenging element comes to your content strategy. So just to give an example. So right now, at WeTravel, when we were like working with different campaigns and content for the US, we were using LinkedIn, for example, to promote a lot of those pieces. But then, when we started working with some companies in Latin America, we realized that they were not using LinkedIn as much as other companies. And they were actually engaging and communicating with their peers using Facebook groups. So we started using LinkedIn because we thought that even though we could like target them on LinkedIn, with LinkedIn tools and audience tools, we thought that would like work the same, but then we realized that those companies were actually hanging out in Facebook groups. And then that’s why we changed like, we slightly change the strategy so we could produce content that will resonate with those groups. So just to give an example. So the same with, I don’t know like with PR, and if you’re doing PR in different countries, the way you approach those media companies is different or journalists is different. So distribution is also something that you should consider when working with different markets, for sure. And, again, it’s one of the most challenging parts, because unless you know someone, or unless you have experienced, will give different markets you might be might take longer than you expect.

Kyler Canastra 22:52
Yeah. And that’s such an important aspect that I think I forget about a lot. It’s just like what channels to be putting your content on and which one’s gonna be more receptive. I just spoke to someone this week that was looking to branch off into the Nordics. And they’re saying how they found in their research, more people are engaged on YouTube than any other channel in those markets, which is interesting. I never really, you know, in my experience, I haven’t had a lot of people ask for like YouTube, community management hasn’t come up a lot as much. But in those markets, it’s something that’s really, I guess, success, like provides a lot of success, but also very, in demand at the moment. So it’s really interesting to hear about how like the channels too, where you’re trying to engage with your audience is kind of varied between the markets as well. Now, when you sit when both of you sit down to start, like, you know, implementing a campaign and kind of this brainstorming process, or throughout the campaign itself, what are some best practices that you would recommend like to do, like things to keep in mind when you’re doing the process? What tools to use, etc. So Allan, do you have any best practices that you could share with us?

Allan Formigoni 23:51
Yeah, sure. So a couple of them. Again, making sure that you have people on your team, whether they are I don’t know contractors, or freelancers or employees that fully understand the audience you’re trying to target. So it could even be like an agency or something like that to help you out. But if you’re like a startup, like me, just try to reach out to your own community and see whatever information might help you. And also, I would say, be aware of, like, your budget might vary a lot depending on the marketing you’re trying to reach. So for example, in my case, when we tried to do something like produce content in English, for example, it costs way more than producing content in, I don’t know, Spanish or Portuguese. So just keep in mind that depending on the market that you are going to and language and the type of content that you want to to produce, you might need to change your budget or you might not have the resources especially if you’re a startup so you need to focus on something.

Kyler Canastra 24:59
Yeah, your budget is definitely going to change, especially if you’re working, you know, in ifferent countries that have different, I don’t know, like the salaries they make, for example, you’re trying to get someone in the Nordics, for example, they have higher salaries than in southern Europe. So it’s really things you got to keep in mind like, Okay, well, if I’m going to try to go into this market, it’s gonna cost me more. I think a lot of people forget that too, when they’re trying to plan ahead. For sure. Now, Mario, have you encountered similar? I don’t know, do you have any similar best practices? And when comparing it to Allan or do you find other things to be more…

Mário Costa 25:29
I totally agree with Allan, I think that connecting with locals, being in your company, and then the local markets or being in your network, I think it’s fundamental, because you cannot understand the realities of other markets you want to play with. So playing, so you need to really contact the local, your local colleagues, local networkers, local people to make sure that the strategy, you’re creating applies to the reality. Otherwise, it’s just what you’re doing is not useful at all, because it will not work. Also, channel wise, as you said it, the habits of people in the North, in the South, in Asia, in Europe, it’s completely different. So you also need to pay attention to which channels are you going to use to talk to people. So for me, these two things about contacting local people to really understand if make sense and if it works, and then channel, which channels to use to reach out to those customers or those people, those targets, makes up two essential things. So I really agree with what Allan said, absolutely.

Kyler Canastra 25:51
Yeah, it’s so important to do that. And also, I think I just want to emphasize too, like, it’s just not about… Budgets shouldn’t be limiting, because you can, you know, if you have a lot of money and a lot of budget, then you can hire, you know, community managers or, you know, people that will be working for you, you know, every day, and each market giving you that information. But I’ve had clients too, that didn’t want to spend that much money, but they have, you know, they have a collaborator, somebody in each market that gives them a monthly report about what’s going on in each market and kind of, you can get insights in a very budget-friendly way as well. It’s not, I think a lot of times, I find that people don’t want to localize their content, because it’s more expensive, but there’s ways around it. I think it’s just about being flexible.

Mário Costa 27:03
And in the end, the local… it’s better to be a little bit unprofessional and talk to friends and colleagues. If you don’t want to do that, you just want to do things by the book, you launch a campaign and then it doesn’t work because it doesn’t work in that country doesn’t work in that channel, it doesn’t work in that language. Sometimes it’s better to use your network of friends and colleagues, it’s better than then don’t do nothing at all.

Kyler Canastra 27:25
That’s so true. It’s like even a WhatsApp message and say, What do you think about this? We all start somewhere, right. And I think you don’t have to always shoot for the stars to really kind of get the wheels spinning on that. And I think the three of us, for example, we’re very fortunate as international people, but people who have lived in other countries and have, you know, these connections, we do have those networks. So I think a lot of times in the companies that we’re working with, we’re gonna have that, because a lot of people are especially in Europe, moving around a lot more. So you’re gonna have those networks. So definitely like, you know, dive into, tap into those networks and really get some insight from there. You don’t have to do this, you know, glamorous, big campaign and invest all this money from the beginning. You can start small and then see how the reaction is and then then invest the money later on, depending on your success, for sure. Now, another question that I receive all the time, too, is when we’re going to start a campaign, do I do everything in English? And then I localize it? Or do I localize it from the beginning So Mario, in your opinion, do you find more success when you start off with the mindset of “I’m going to localize for every market everything from the beginning” or “I start with one idea, then later on I localize it.”

Mário Costa 28:33
Well, from my experience, I think it’s worse when you start with one idea and then localize, because you need to have a base, you need to have start starting points. If you don’t define that starting point and that base, either you will lose yourself, or you’re going in the wrong direction. Because you need to start from a specific point, then you decide which role are you going to take, because the role depends on where the place you want to go. But if you have one common starting point, it can be language, can be concepts, can be visuals, I mean, it can be a lot of things, but you need to have one common starting point and then of course, localize, it’s mandatory. But for me, it’s important to have one common starting point.

Kyler Canastra 29:15
And how about for you Allan, what do you think?

Allan Formigoni 29:18
I totally agree with Mario to start with like, one thing that makes sense for you, whether it’s language or a specific market and also just adding to that, make sure that your internal communications is in place, especially if you’re leadership. I heard some cases of other companies that because you were, I don’t know, like the marketing or agency for a specific language, let’s say like Spanish, then the leadership would say, okay, so if we’re producing content for a language like Spanish, so that means that we we can impact and promote our content in all Spanish-speaking countries. And that’s not true. So, I mean, it can be some time, it depends on your product and your market and everything, but just make sure that you fully explain like, what is your strategy and you have that writen and it’s aligned with your leadership.

Kyler Canastra 30:15
I think it’s both very important points, and I think it’s, I always tell people if they want my opinion on it, cuz I’ve had situations come up where people say, I want to do it this way, and kind of, you know, stubborn about it. But I always say, like, if you are working, so say, for me, for example, and I’m gonna start my brand, you know, and I’m gonna do this and localize it. For me, it’s much more comfortable to do it in my native language and, in the language that I think of the company because that way I can maintain the ideas and the brand image. And it’s more important to like flesh that out first, and then say, How do I transfer or translate or, you know, communicate these ideas in the different markets later on. And kind of adapting it from there. In my opinion, I think that’s always been like the most useful way of doing it. Because you know, what your ideas are, and you feel it’s better to start off, when you’re comfortable talking about what you want to do, and you know your brand in a certain way that maybe you want to express it by convoluting it as I think Mario was saying before, like you have too many things going on at once, then you kind of lose touch with what the real message is. So it’s kind of easier to start off small, just like the budget thing we were talking about. Start out small, and then kind of expand that way. So I guess in terms of localizing it, it’s so much easier to do it that way, because you’re more comfortable with the idea. And then you kind of expand it and separate it that way. Now, I mentioned the pandemic, twice, or three times already in this conversation, which I try not to do, because I know it’s something that we just are very much, you know, pollutes everything from the news and everything we read, social media, it’s kind of everywhere, but it’s also the reality we’re living in. And as marketers, it’s something that’s really impacted our work in the past couple years, because the way people have consumed content, now, it’s very different, I think, we’re more I think, I find that people are more attached to their phones and social media than ever before, because we kind of, a lot of us are, you know, either quarantining or spending time alone. And I just kind of mix up the way we view the world. So I wanted to know, in your opinion, in the past two years, have you seen a shift in the way that you like, when you’re implementing campaign, like, have you changed the way you’ve done that according to like, what’s going on in the world? And with the pandemic? And have you seen a shift in how your target audiences or target audience consume, markets consume your content? So Allan, what do you think about that?

Allan Formigoni 32:31
So yes, as I worked in the travel industry, I was definitely affected, at WeTravel. So I mean, when the when it came, we are like, our revenue was not growing at all, because people weren’t traveling. So what we did was kind of like using this opportunity to engage with our community, engage with our customers, make sure everything was right with them. And then that’s when we decided to start hosting these monthly webinars, or maybe biweekly webinars, where we would invite one of those clients or any other industry expert, to provide information to the whole community. And this kind of helped us make, kind of gave us like another path to keep going, even though everything that was happening. And I can honestly say that this was one of the things that helped us, helped the company remain alive throughout the whole thing. Right now, I mean, I think right now, things are kind of changing, because everybody were like doing something similar with content, especially with like online events, or live webinars, whatever. So I feel that it’s time for us content marketers to rethink ourselves, because I’ve heard from a lot of people, at least in our industry, that they are kind of getting sick of like, so many lives, so many webinars. So what are the things that we can do now to, to revamp like this whole thing, you know. What else can we do, and not just another live or another webinar, right?

Kyler Canastra 34:03
Because online events can be tiring after a while, too, if you have so many zoom calls and all that. But also, I think, like, interesting in the travel industry as well, during all this, is kind of this whole idea of you can’t really do like, we couldn’t really implement these long-term campaigns anymore. Because I think with, I know a lot of people now I feel like are these consumers in the travel industry are kind of curious about, How can I travel? It’s kind of with all these things changing and the restrictions. And so I think like the content marketers in the travel industry now have a really unique perspective and unique opportunity to connect but also providing valuable information in terms of, You want to travel to this country, you need X, Y and Z, which I think right. I don’t know if this is your case, Allan but like, very complicated to keep up to date with all these changes that are going on in trying to provide consumers with the right information. I’m not sure if that’s impacted your day to day as well.

Allan Formigoni 34:56
Yeah, I mean, especially for a travel professionals, like people working in travel companies or travel agencies, we really saw that they, I mean, they were really focused on their travel businesses. And sometimes they were really focused on making sure their travel experiences were like the best they could have. But with the pandemic, we realize a lot of them were like shifting their expertise or trying to expand their expertise, because they had to let people go in their companies. So they were lacking resources. So we saw this shift, when they were looking for us to try to learn about business management, or marketing or whatever resources they need, in order to keep their business going. So yeah, and then with that, we tried to offer as much as we can, not only sharing our personal experience as a company, but also inviting others to talk like, someone that is like, let’s say, someone that is really a marketing expert within the travel industry, so something really specific. Right. And that makes a lot of sense for us.

Kyler Canastra 35:59
Yeah, and I think a lot of people have looked more at content as a source of information of knowledge sharing now, especially as we’re more in tune with content and the content that we’re consuming. Now, we just talked about travel, and another big industry that got hit by the pandemic was fitness. And so Mario, you work at MANZ, so how is, I guess, your experience of the pandemic and kind of dealing with that sector? Do you also guys do like wines and stuff too. So it’s like tourism related as well? So it kind of a lot, it’s gotten impacted.

Mário Costa 36:29
Yes, fitness and also training was very, very impacted in our company, because of course, gyms were closed, right? So for for a long time. And so then we sense a shift on the online training, for example. So the online training, it was something that was unthinkable two or three years ago, nobody was doing online training at home, while the personal trainer or the gym were doing it live. This was unthinkable. So it was quite the change. Because nowadays, we see a trend that a lot of people would like to continue to train at home, doing a live session with the personal trainer, or with the gym, or the trainer in the gym and transmitting it live, streaming it live. So this is a trend that, of course we tried to respond. And that’s why we’ve created a lot of platforms and content that can be used by the personal trainers, and also by the gym owners to transmit, to stream it to their customers at home. We’ve done this, we’ve provided this kind of service, kind of platforms, kind of content to be able for gyms and trainers to continue to work with their customers and trainers, using this technology. And so we did that. Also in our training site, because we also do post graduations and courses that we provide to our our customers. So in this case, personal trainers and fitness professionals, we also made the shift to online courses, right, to elearning. So now of course, as Allan said, we are trying to define, which is the right strategy because as you mentioned, people are tired a little bit of elearning modules, from a business perspective it pays off because you have the product to learn from resource wise is better. But then you lose this kind of connection and this kind of thing, especially in fitness, where they have a lot of practical aspects of the training, right. So we are in this moment of transition. But during the pandemic elearning was, of course, what helped us to continue to thrive in this business.

And were people receptive to that? Because I feel like it could be like some people may be very motivated to work out and like do it at home online. But were some people maybe, I don’t know, I felt like it could change the motivation of people in terms of…

We had an increase, we had an increase. So we had more students, we had more students participating in our elearning sessions. Because then it’s easier, you can be at home. And during the pandemic, you also may work less or even not work at all, so you had time to develop yourself. So we saw a growth in the number of students joining our sessions. So in the end, it was which was quite interesting to also find this aspect. Now we see the trends a little bit changing again. So we need to now provide some kind of mixed trainings, by havingelearning session. And never forget the practical session as well. So we’re trying to find this balance right now.

Kyler Canastra 39:21
That’s good. And I think a lot of people have focused on mental and physical health. In the past, we needed it. I think it was very important to keep those things in mind. Now I want to know, I guess during this past year and a half, like you guys mentioned, just like some examples of webinars and online learning, like learning for fitness, but was there a specific like, campaign that you launched in the past two years? And if not, it’s okay. But that was successful and kind of why? What was something that was exciting that you both worked on in terms of a content marketing campaign in the past two years? How about Allan, what do you think?

Allan Formigoni 39:55
So we recently launched our WeTravel Academy, which like the whole idea o the academy came because of those webinars that I mentioned before. So we realize that people were engaging with those webinars like asking questions, and they wanted more. And then that’s why we came up with the academy idea. And it’s basically where we gather like all content that we provide for our audience or even for our clients. And I would say that the most exciting part, at least the one that I feel more passionate about is that we know that nowadays, like, the internet is super crowded with a lot of content, no matter if you’re in a niche or not. And we really like the idea that like, providing specific content to our industry. So let’s say for example, if someone wants to learn about marketing, of course, you have like a lot of different places where you can go to, a lot of different blogs, websites, resources, but what made us like, motivated about the idea was not just creating another like website or another blog, with more content about marketing, but creating something that is specific to our industry, to our audience and to their challenge. So how can you do additional marketing if you’re a travel agency, or if you are a tour operator? So that’s, that’s what we’ve been working on right now. And we are still trying to figure out like, what’s the type of content that engage better with your audience, especially nowadays, I’ve actually, because they’re like, usually small and medium business, so they are busy pretty much all the time. So which formats of content will resonate better with them. But I’m glad to say that since we launched it, we’ve seen a lot of good feedback, and traffic is increasing, number of leads is increasing. So I think it’s paying off now.

Kyler Canastra 41:50
That’s awesome, and you’re getting those results by providing a tool or a source of information, that adds value to the people, even if they’re not gonna maybe use your services. But still, you’re kind of providing this really good source of information. And, you know, people are gonna be more attracted to that. So it’s great that you’re seeing these like organic results as a result of this really cool Academy initiative that you guys are working on. How about you, Mario, in the past two years, anything similar?

Mário Costa 42:17
It’s funny, because we did exactly the same, not for the tourist area but for the fitness. So we developed content that we launched like every week, or every month, depending on the time we were living, based on four pillars like management, business, people and exercise. So based on these four main pillars, we were talking to fitness and club managers to provide them content, and how to apply a marketing strategy as a gym owner, how to motivate people to continue to train, how to combine mental health with fitness. So all this kind of content we were also also providing during the last few years, and it was triggered by the pandemic. Exactly. So it’s something that we continue to do, we continue to provide and share with our fitness trainers and club managers, precisely because it’s confident that they felt the need to not only update themselves, sometimes even entertain themselves, occupy themselves. But even nowadays, it still required, useful, viewed. So it’s, yeah, we did exactly the same, like Allan did in the tourism area, so.

Kyler Canastra 43:19
Yeah, I think the pandemic has made us all just kind of shift inwards and be like, What can we provide to our audiences that would be helpful? I mean, this podcast came from the pandemic. So the one that we’re on right now. So, a lot of really cool, exciting, I think it’s given us, although it was a challenge, it’s given us an opportunity to kind of look inwards and be like, What can we share with the world through content that’s going to be relevant and useful for people who are, you know, consuming more content than ever before, I think online. So I also wanted to know, too now in terms, we talked a lot about these, I wouldn’t say like soft skills but kind of just more, you know, the ideas behind implementing a successful campaign. But I want to know a bit more about like, what tools you use when implementing a campaign? And like, what are some must-have tools or apps or things that you do in the process that you use that really helped you kind of structure, a campaign and then implement it? So Mario, in your opinion, do you have any, like, must-have tools or apps?

Mário Costa 44:15
It really depends also on the size of the company, the budget of the company, and everywhere where we are, I guess having some tool, you don’t need to have a fully implemented CRM system that is quite expensive. I mean, then you need to have some sort of tool that may help you to create and manage this relationship with your customers, right? So which kind of content they like, how, what’s the frequency of content that you would like to share with your customers? So having this kind of methodology, not necessarily a tool, but at least a methodology to be able to follow up the conversation you’re having with your customers via content sharing, so for me this is quite important to do so. Then if you work with a global brand campaign in such different markets, I think it’s important to have one tool where everybody, all the colleagues in the markets, all the customers or even that can can download this kind of content and then localize to it, like having your own database where like your colleagues or customers can even download. I’ll give you an example. For example, we have, we have a brand, which is live meals, it’s an international brand that we have the representation of it here in Portugal. And this brand provides also content for gyms, for example, to decorate the gym, with the classes that they provide, the programs that they have. So having this kind of tool, to even to your customers to help them have the contents to then apply to their own customers, their end customers, it’s important to have this in place as well.

Kyler Canastra 45:45
For sure, that’s interesting too, like providing them with the tools in order to then spread your message. It’s kind of like having them as like a middleman in it, is important. And Allan, in your opinion?

Allan Formigoni 45:56
Just adding to what Mario said. So if you’re working specifically more with like content and content strategy, the ones that I use the most are Google Analytics, Google Search Console. And the good thing about those tools is that one, they are free, of course, and you can use localization features within that, so you can, like, I don’t know, target whatever countries or whatever language you are using in your campaigns, you can use those tools to make, like really specific data. Google Trends the same. For SEO I use SEMrush a lot. They are a paid tool but anyway, you can get like a free version with limited resources, but it’s still, you can get some things out of it. I also use Buzzsumo a lot. So to get training topics or content ideas, especially related to like social sharing, so we get a lot of the ideas in there. And lately, I’ve been using Spark Auto, which is a good tool for again, they are a paid tool, but you can use it for free with some limited time or limited amount of queries that you can do there. But it’s good tool to, especially for working like me, we felt like a niche audience to better understand, like, where is that audience hanging out? Like which channels or we tried the trending topics which audience like hashtags they use, or people they follow. So it’s a good tool for that.

Kyler Canastra 47:27
Yeah, I think, two like, big takeaways from the conversation today, one was kind of this whole idea of you really need to like, curate, you know, depending on your, your audience, like what’s gonna be more like, not everything’s gonna work in every market, every campaign, but also a takeaway that I didn’t expect to have was this, the whole idea of budget shouldn’t be an obstacle. I think what you’re saying right now, Allan, like, a lot of these tools are free, or there’s free versions of a paid version of a tool. So I think there’s like no excuses, and really not, you know, launch a campaign to localize it to do all these things that we’ve mentioned today. Money shouldn’t be an issue. It’s kind of more of being creative and looking for other ways of doing things, for sure. Now, we’ve come to the end of our interview, or the chat now, it’s not really interviewing anymore. Since we’re doing a roundtable conversation, which it’s been a lot of fun. So thank you both for for joining me today. And kind of taking this risk with me as we start this new format of the podcast. But as we begin in the new year, and I think, you know, taking risk is something that we can add to our list of what we want to do in 2022. But what are some things that we should keep in mind when it comes to implementing these content strategies, and especially these global content strategies in 2022? And I don’t know if you have any, like, piece of parting advice that you could give to our audience, in terms of what should we keep in mind as we start the new year, so Mario, in your opinion?

Mário Costa 48:49
I guess we need to be connected together again. That’s the point. Be together with your colleagues, be together with your friends, be together with your customers, so it’s about connecting, again, to make sure that you follow up the right strategy. So connect again, now it’s time to reconnect, I guess.

Kyler Canastra 49:05
Yeah, and making sure that our content reflects that and does that as well. And maybe, hopefully, you know, not just doing these webinars and things, maybe doing things in person or, you know, bringing that all back together through and using these marketing campaigns to help promote that to promote this idea of unity, which I think we all really are looking for. And I’m kind of just tired of being alone. Not alone. You know what I mean? Kind of just it’s been a very isolating time for like, humanity, I guess you could say. And Allan, how about you? Do you agree with that? And if you have another idea.

Allan Formigoni 49:36
Yeah, yeah, sure. I definitely agree. And yeah, just adding to that. I would say that we again, we kind of need to maintain ourselves, not only content marketers, but like marketers in general. And just, I mean, stop blogging for like, just the sake of like blogging or stop producing content just for the sake of producing content, but I think companies definitely to invest more time in a long-term audience building. And I think in the long term, that’s what will pay off by, again, not just producing content for the sake of producing content.

Kyler Canastra 50:09
Right, for sure, I agree. And I think you know, and we’re going to be able to do that, and kind of making sure we’re just putting more meaning behind the content that we do in the strategies. And the campaigns that we implement this year. I think that’s the kind of a goal that I had with with the podcast. And I will do a shameless plug for people listening. But like, I really want to bring people together in a different way. And I think, you know, we’ve connected YouTube, for example, and now we’ve connected the three of us. And I hope that if anyone that’s listening that’s really feels like inclined, they want to join the show, like, please reach out if you know someone that could fit a good profile to join us on The Content Mix, and kind of have these conversations with us, I’m more than willing. So please reach out to us as well online, you can reach out to us on social channels, etc. But I just think it’s a really cool way. I have found, for me, personally, with the podcast, it’s been a really fantastic way to meet new people and connect with people without having that barrier. But I do hope. And we’re hoping that this year will allow for us to have more in-person events, cause we also, at The Content Mix, we do in person events, networking events and stuff like that, to provide, you know, build this community. I’m hoping to do more of that in Lisbon, as well. So we’ll see what happens. But I’m hoping that this year, we can have a more human connection in terms of meeting people and focusing on those relationships that we kind of had to put aside for so long. So again, as we come to the end of the conversation, I just want to thank both Allan and Mario for joining me today and sharing really great insights from your own careers and your own perspective. So thank you again for joining me. And I want to thank again the audience for listening in as you always do. And as I always say, for more perspectives on the content marketing industry in Europe, definitely check out our website veracontent.com/mix. And keep tuning into the podcast for more exciting episodes with content experts and more roundtable conversations like this one. So we’re looking forward to kicking off this year with more insights and more exciting perspectives. So thanks again. And hope to see you guys in person soon in Lisbon maybe and then also see you and the audience again in different episodes coming out. So thank you again, for your time today.

Mário Costa 52:13
Thank you Kyler.

Allan Formigoni 52:14
Thanks Kyler.

Kyler Canastra 52:15
Thank you. We’ll talk soon. Bye, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai